Ask: Can you explain perception ending in time?


“I had to draw a picture of this to begin to understand. It helped! The last paragraph I do not understand though. Could you start with that on your next newsletter and explain it a little more…” - HW

Here is the last paragraph from the last article:

“Perception (awareness, consciousness), desire, lack - these are all temporary (time-bound) experiences. They can be satisfied in time through an awareness (perception, consciousness) of Truth. But they, and the awareness of Truth, end in time. Only Truth Itself has nothing to do with time.”

Using the language of A Course in Miracles, “Knowledge” refers to God or Truth. In God there is only God and what God knows is God.  “Perception” (also “consciousness” or “awareness”) refers to our split-mind’s experience apart from Knowledge/God. Unlike Knowledge, where all is One, or the same throughout, perception has degrees, gradations, etc. There is the perceived and the perceiver and what is perceived varies and is variegated. The highest perception one can attain is Awareness of Truth (Holy Spirit; Christ Consciousness). This perception prepares one for Knowledge.  At the highest level of perception one is still aware of the universe of form but knows it is not real.  But Knowledge is beyond the universe of form. The universe of form and perception are not part of Knowledge and do not enter It at all.

Knowledge is Timeless and perception is always temporary – in time. All perception, even the perception of Truth, ends with time.


The point I was making in the article was that someone who asks the question “Why don’t I just kill myself to go to Heaven?” is asking from a lower level of perception. Otherwise they would not ask the question! They are not looking to transcend desire but to satisfy their desire for Heaven. And desire can only be satisfied at the level of perception. Desire can be satisfied now, in time, not through death, when perception ends.

>>>>
Are there concepts in A Course in Miracles with which you struggle? This can be an obstacle to peace. Clarifying and explaining are things I do with my clients. You can learn more at www.acimmentor.com and you can set up a half-hour or an hour appointment with me at Liz@acimmentor.com.

Comments

Frank C said…
Hi, Liz... maybe it's just semantics, but I'm still unable to "understand" how there can be "knowing" without awareness,,, you said (above): "In God there is only God and what God KNOWS is God"...see, to me, if there is "knowing", there is awareness... otherwise, there is just void, emptiness... nothing... NO THING!

To KNOW that I "BE" implies that I'm aware that I am being... no? Even if I'm BEING the One Mind of God, without awareness there can be no KNOWING, right? Again, this may be all semantics, or lack of language to adequately express the meaning and "experience" of IT...

Maybe this is all a moot point and is NOT describable... I've had some flashes of what I feel you're describing, and I TRUST (and find PEACE) in IT, but to me, there was an element of awareness... fragment of ego mind ? the "silver thread"? Whatever...

Be well..

Frank c
ACIM Mentor said…
Yes, Frank, "Knowing" cannot be conveyed. There is no correlation at the level of perception where there is always the perceiver and the perceived even when what one perceives is that it is one with what it perceives. Like everything else to do with Truth and not-Truth each is the opposite and wholly exclusive of the other. To be aware of Truth and to know Truth (or be Truth) - there's no way to convey how radically different each experience is from the other.

ACIM makes a distinction between the miracle and Revelation just so you do not make the mistake of thinking that the miracle is the experience of Truth Itself and think it ends there. Higher miracles, as shocking as they are, only prepare one for Truth Itself.
will said…
Frank, I come out of a paradigm of 'Keep It Simple'. To read yours and Liz's comments I have to really put on my thinking cap. A lot of the time I simply cannot hold on to the answers to these types of questions. They seem to fade away. They are a mental puzzle which is what grabs me when I'm in the mood for it. Liz seems to have a solid foundation she is working off of. There doesn't seem to be the struggle we have of putting pieces together to make something fit. I suspect this is something the HS gives us over time. She seems to have a different kind of understanding to the words and ideas. It may be the ego can't come up with a satisfactory answer to the difficult questions that you ask.
will said…
Frank, To give an example, when I get to taking about the finite and the infinite I can put together some logical thought (To Me) about what is going on. But there is something inside me that is letting me know quite clearly that what I am talking about really has no importance. An "Awareness" that I am on the lower rungs of the ladder of progress.
hannah said…
liz, well that makes sense, and is incredibly reassuring. if truth is as um.. radically different and wonderful in comparison to the higher miracle as the higher miracle is to the personal selfs perception, then.. wowsers!

oh, i just kinda.. realised? felt? something, but i dont understand it! in the higher miracle experience there was no conflict left in my perception, the one song/story was completely loving and there was nothing to do. i could still see the world and still perceive the stories it told but its stories had no reality. only the 'one story' felt real. or rather.. the LOVE of it did. and i loved everything exactly as it was. but i just realised it was like.. the world didnt have any meaning any more, there was no point to it any more, and yet.. i felt nothing but love. but the course says only god has meaning? oh.. hang on, i think i just answered myself.. if god is in everything i see because god is in my mind.. i wasnt seeing the world as it is really.. there is no world.. i was seeing myself as i am? as close as i can while still perceiving? but.. is that any closer to the truth? um.. what i mean is, is seeing myself and seeing the world the same thing?? the actual same thing? and then, after that.. is the truth? if i want it?

in the dream higher miracle, the world of one light faded away into something i leapt away from in fear. so i guess the step from personal perception to one perception was as much i could handle? it would have been too 'shocking' for this self to open any further then? all i can remember is a tiny little 'blank space' before leaping back into personal perception, feeling sad, then recalling that living in the one light/song/story world was just a choice, nothing else was needed to do but choose.

ah liz, im feeling kinda.. angry, impatient at leaps of faith. but maybe.. im allowed to be me in my perception with out the fear. maybe i wont be 'in trouble' with.. something.. if im not conflicted about being me? is that possible!? i know that sounds like a silly question, but im really asking it. its 100% ok to enjoy 'being' me? as i 'am'?
hannah said…
i can just.. turn AWAY from this guilt and fear? to the greatest love i can perceive at the time, without worrying about what way that presents to my mind at the time? (ie, without worrying about 'getting love right') just drop guilt and fear?
hannah said…
yes, i can.. but WHAT is the terror that arises then liz??? it makes no sense.
ACIM Mentor said…
Yes, Hannah, it's absolutely okay to enjoy being yourself. And you don't have to worry about getting anything "right".

The "terror" is probably that you don't believe that this is okay! Remember, to the ego the worst "sin" is believing that you are NOT guilty. That's why we vacillate. Our belief in sin pulls us back.

But beyond that there is still the need to acclimate to Truth, and, if you remember our discussion, learning it is not a loss to give up what we hold onto just because it is ours.
hannah said…
ok.. yes it does.. its just the same cycle repeating. just.. a bit louder. cycles. fear of a judgemental god, and fear of loss of self, and guilt of thinking my 'own' being/perception IS, and that it means something. back to turning to love/reality.

im just .. scared that enjoying being me is a trap.
hannah said…
oh, thats right.. the worst sin is believing im not guilty!! thanks, thats a gem , it will help a lot in this.

but that last part, still makes me cry. i do remember it, its been playing through my head on repeat. i feel like a tantrum-y three year old. i get the conflict, i want peace, and i want what feels like my own precious thing, (first im joey, now im gollum, dammit!) and i cant have both. i guess i just am where i am. i feel impossible, like a protostar-supernova-black hole.

i want to get off the ride and hold my precious close, but i wont let me cos i want peace. its difficult to maintain kindness to it all, but easy to want to be kind.
ACIM Mentor said…
Ah, yes, the TRAP!

I went through a stage, just as my trust in the HS was strengthening, where I feared It was just being nice to lure me in so that then IT could snap the TRAP! Not to mention the fear that there was some sort of sacrifice, some crucifixion, that would be required of me. Yeah, all sorts of ugly fears are exposed as you advance.
hannah said…
im feeling reallly... CROSS at recognising that none of this means anything. but maybe if it doesnt mean anything.. theres nothing to let go of, really.. so i dont have to! ;) i mean.. truly. did you EVER actually let go of anything??? or did it just fall away, which really isnt the same thing, is it?
ACIM Mentor said…
Hannah, there was a time just at the beginning of the period of relinquishment when I had to let go of things that I kept picking up but didn't need to. That was very short lived. Really, it was coming to accept that they had fallen away. After that anything that needed to fall away just did.
hannah said…
ok.. um. so is what youre saying that the letting go involves an active choice of turning away from/not-entertaining thoughts? not spending time with ideas that you (already) knew were not conducive to your peace?
hannah said…
do you never experience idle imaginings/fantasies anymore? or do they still happen in your mind but you just dont dwell on them?

and it was SHORT lived!? you must have already totally trusted HS by then!?
hannah said…
and.. oh! crucifixion and sacrifice are the same thing!? and seen as coming from a judgemental god? is that like the feeling of.. "i shouldnt have these thoughts/feelings, or enjoying being a self, and HS is springing a trap by making me think its ok cos 'its not even real and so therefor doesnt mean anything/ isnt harmful', but oh boy is god going to get me when i relax and think/feel/enjoy?"
ACIM Mentor said…
Hannah:

1) That letting go stage still had to do with actions. I wasn't even dealing with my mind yet! The period of relinquishment comes when you reach the tipping point in trusting the HS. For me this showed up as an incredible willingness to follow only the HS. When I had just entered it I would still follow the ego. Then I'd realize I was going down a dead end and have to pull out to follow the HS. This went on only for a few months, tapering off as it went. Finally I just sat back and let the HS lead the way. And I have not looked back!

2) Most of my thoughts are idle imaginings and fantasies. The HS does not have much to think. But the ego is always busy, busy, busy doing. I just let it run. Sometimes I follow, but not for long. Nothing there.

3) I had the unconscious belief that I had to go through a "trial" to "earn" my place in God. Like Jesus and His crucifixion (which I now understand to be an allegory). This was apart from the feeling I might be headed for a trap. That was a feeling that the HS was earning my trust just to set a trap.
will said…
Hannah, Not sure this is going on with you but it is something that happens to me. When I make an important decision, like your not working so hard, there is a retaliation from the ego. "Oh, So you are going to dump me huh? Well here take this." And then starts this massive barrage of thought, the ego's payback. I expect it's different for everyone. In any case the ego has jerked me back on the merry-go-round and her we go again!
will said…
OFF TOPIC:
A great book; "Word by Word: The Secret Life of Dictionaries" by Kory Stamper. If you have Kindle download a sample.
hannah said…
liz, re 1)

an incredible willingness to follow only the HS.. an incredible willingness.. it sounds so VERY joyful, ease-ful. no looking back!! oh the pull of wholeheartedness!

my question is, what do you mean by dead end? the way ive looked at that is that, in one way, everything here is a dead end, right, if you are int eh ego mind frame, and nothing is a dead end if you are in the HS mind frame? is that an accurate statement? so, by dead end, do you mean.. action/thought that would decrease your peace? if something does not decrease your peace, can it still be considered a dead end on the level of mind, if it were not going anywhere on the level of form? for example, enjoying picturing yourself on a warm sandy beach sometimes when your enjoying and satisfied with your life living on a mountain? i mean.. thats a dead end in one respect, not going anywhere, nothing to do with plans or action, yet not disrupting your love of the mountain you live on. the beach is just a nice place to visit in your mind??

re 2) the holy spirit does not have much to think!!!! so, its a present experience, a.. quiet thought system, laugh, unless its gently undoing?

Ah, yes, the TRAP!

I went through a stage, just as my trust in the HS was strengthening, where I feared It was just being nice to lure me in so that then IT could snap the TRAP! Not to mention the fear that there was some sort of sacrifice, some crucifixion, that would be required of me. Yeah, all sorts of ugly fears are exposed as you advance.

re 3) ok.. so the belief in sacrifice/crucifixion. thats like, the ego's atonement, right? punishment for guilt and trying to regain worthiness of inclusion and love? i feel that i simply cant be good enough to deserve love. and i feel like unless i get it right, be 'pure' enough, something awful will be done to me 'for my own good'. to make me be a good person, even if it has to be out of fear not being intrinsically good.

can you talk more about the trap? why did you write IT in capitals?

my fear of HS trapping me feels like.. im being enticed into a false sense of safety, so that it can (oh..) teach me a lesson. like its saying 'oh, youre lovable, youre not a sinner.. relax, love is leading you home, trust the unfolding, honesty or 'keeping it real' will work better than hiding' then when i just relax and be me, BAM! theres the sin, and the punishment from god will follow.
hannah said…
will, i had a 'strange' experience today. (i'll just say id never heard the term 'bearcat' before you used it on regard to the ego a while back.)

today at a t-junction, three cars drove past me in succession. the first had 'bearcat' written large along the side of it (i just googled it, apparently its a tyre brand.. ive never heard of it before). id read your comment this morning, and so thought of the ego straight away, and the experience/fear of ego kickback.. as you said, how it can be a real bearcat. the next two cars had the plates 'cup' and 'forever homeward'. i have a personal symbology with 'cup' from a movie about tibetan (i think) monks (called 'the cup', lol, based on a true story) i watched years ago.. without going into details, 'cup' (for me personally) has said 'just get out there and enjoy yourself'. 'forever homeward' is kinda self explanatory, laugh!

anyway, ive been pondering what 'i was telling myself' all day. i think maybe its just that all of the minds 'stuff' can be equally valuable in choosing to turn toward 'home' or truth.

so, im not so worried about my racing thoughts.. liz is helping me accpet that its helpful if i practise not judging my egos thoughts and reactions, just observe them.. maybe thats what you were saying to me? and i feel like maybe im trusting the unfolding more.. even the bearcat parts feel.. helpful.
ACIM Mentor said…
Hannah:

1) Beware our automatic conceptualization of what we read of others' experiences. I cannot say enough about how none of this has unfolded as I expected. The willingness was great and it was easier but I was not joyous. I was still very much in the spiritualizing the self stage. It was still all about my life in the world.
Dead end: I was in life coach training at the time and I as supposed to be building a practice. I kept deciding what kind of practice it was supposed be (relationship, spiritual, just women, etc.) and I'd start going in that direction only to feel it was a dead end, have to pull myself out, and then wait for guidance. The guidance was "it's not time to build a practice" (it wouldn't be for 6 years) but I had a hard time accepting that and kept trying. It was hard partly from embarrassment since I'd told everyone I was now going to be a life coach and also from the awkwardness of being the only student not building a practice. Also, I was "passionate" about this (always a sign of ego) and wanted to build a practice and move on from house cleaning, etc. But, when I felt the "dead-end" feeling I knew I was not following the HS. Eventually I stopped following the ego's lead and stepped back and let the HS lead the way. It was much easier if personally awkward because I had to find "worldly" explanations for others. Eventually the relief outweighed any awkwardness. Plus the willingness was lovely. My life from then on was following only the HS.

2) Right. The HS has nothing to say until you need It to say something.

3) I did not write "It" in caps - you did! I don't know what more I can say. I felt all the trust building was just to lure me in.

As to you not feeling good enough: You never will be good enough as a person. When you are there you are in the ego's territory. But in Truth the person is nothing. Worthiness is not a consideration for Truth. The Truth in you does not have to be "good enough" for Truth any more than a tree needs to "deserve" to be a tree. Any discussion of worthiness means you are in the ego's territory. You cannot resolve the issue there. You have to step out and go to Truth.
hannah said…
liz,

1) ok, thanks. so.. im hearing that the ego will try and link joy with the selfs life and choices, and that this is what i will still do til that goal shifts, if it does for me. (from wanting a happier me to wanting to know the truth only. truth is where your saying joy is, right?).

drat, its difficult to stop trying to feel what the space you have reached feels like. hard to keep it simple and just practise observing my mind, not judging my thoughts/feelings, and turning toward truth as i perceive it now. ah liz, i get confused because its hard not to try and relate what you say to thoughts not actions. actions/choices in the world i just feel my way through more and more with a slowly growing lessening (hehe) of judgement. my life is slow and i dont often really need to make any.. well, 'big' choices, im not often excessively worried about them. should i return to paid work or is it ok to stay on a benefit and keep volunteering is just about the only one that feels big, and changes in how i relate to my family/friends as i develop healthier boundaries. my life is more about whats in my head. i do worry about that. but.. your last paragraph answers that i think.. ill never be perfect as a person, but a tree does not need to deserve to be a tree! ;) that is really funny, i think the secret to happiness just might be in that tree!

3) um.. do you mean you wrote this 'I went through a stage, just as my trust in the HS was strengthening, where I feared It was just being nice to lure me in so that then IT could snap the TRAP!' to encourage me to look more clearly at the beliefs behind what i wrote about being afraid enjoying myself was a trap!? to look at the.. contradictory nature of the belief as far as truth goes?

and thank you for that last paragraph. that is going on my wall, and its been a while since i had that urge.

ACIM Mentor said…
1) We cannot help conceptualize what it will be like. Just know that you may be wrong and keep an open mind.
I was just not at that time in the place where I was looking at my mind. I was still living in the world and bringing the HS with me. This is how I built trust in it. Looking at my mind came later in the relinquishment stage. It happened naturally and organically. That's just the way it unfolded for me.

3) Ah, you're way back in a much earlier post. I only looked at my last one. The "IT" was a mistake. Only the "I" was supposed to be in caps. So, no, I was not trying to be clever. Anyway, I was just saying that's how my fear of Truth showed up. It's always a little different for each of us.
hannah said…
1) boy youre good at popping the guilt bubble! thank you.. it seems obvious now that of course we cant help but conceptualise/imagine.. the ego's rather a natural at that, isnt it! im SURE im wrong in what i imagine cos you keep surprising me!

i dont even know if what im looking at is my mind. i know i look at my thoughts. youve guided me to a closer understanding of what looking at them with HS means, and im doing my best to put that into practise. obviously i much more strongly relate to being a self in the world, else i doubt id have retreated from it so much, and im far from peaceful. i retreated from the the world from fear of the worlds demands as much as a desire to focus on healing my relationship with being me. i value my spiritual path, im grateful for the time ive made to focus on this, but i still relate strongly as a person in hiding. because i believe i should be doing worldly things to earn my way.

3) laugh, le confuzzlement. but yes, if i sit and think of trusting that its ok to enjoy being me, that theres no crime in it, my stomach actually lurches. like there is something laying in wait on the other side of relaxation/enjoyment to prove that only the ego would say enjoyment of this mind wasnt a wrong choice, and i was just fooling myself that the HS said that because enjoining this self is what i want.
ACIM Mentor said…
Hannah, I'm never peaceful. But peace is always with me. I've let go of the idea of personal peace or happiness.

3)You are describing exactly the heart of the ego's guilt. If you enjoy it, it's wrong. But then, of course, you are also wrong for not enjoying yourself.
will said…
Hannah, The movie was called "The Cup?"
Anonymous said…
Very helpful dialogue.
will said…
Hannah, When I wrote to you about the racing thoughts this is what I was thinking about. When I was somewhere early in recovery (1-5 years) I had racing thoughts along with a number of other things going on. As I'm writing this I'm not sure I can say it clearly. Anyway someone told me why and what was going on with me. Prior to this I was powerless to deal with the racing thoughts. It was pushing me toward suicidal thinking, my mind was out of control. When the person told me what was going on all of a sudden I was back in control again. EMPOWERED!! The mind kept running but now I knew what was happening. It became a kind of personal joke to watch it run. I was able to transfer this to a number of other issues and it was a great help. For instance the mind would tell me something and I'd be on the verge of carrying through the thought and would suddenly remember "Wait, that's just the voice." When it happens I 'look' at the mind and say "Shut Up You." Anyway...

I bet your heart was really thumping when you saw BEARCAT! joking.
will said…
Hannah, I think that must have been the first time I began to realize I was not the mind. Interesting.
hannah said…
liz

1) oh.. CLICK!

3) oh.. haha! click!
hannah said…
will.. yes. i just googled it and a biographical aussie movie called the cup came up, about the melbourne cup horse race here.. not that movie, haha! further googling tells me the title of the one im talking about is 'Phörpa'. it has english subtitles.

no my heart wasnt thumping because the 'bearcat' was only one part of the communication, the cars were one after the other. but yeah, as i wrote above, im only just opening to trust that HS isnt sometimes setting a trap.. not long ago it would have made me start to panic, 'oh no, here i go again, im gunna get me.' i still thought 'bad news' could come from HS. i guess i still do think that.. but i know im wrong, haha!
will said…
Liz, Something I need to know. When you stop listening to your mind and its ramblings what happens? Are you not thinking or have you move your attention away from listening to doing something else?
hannah said…
oh.. the holy spirit really isnt constructive.. its de-constructive. and its not really even that. i feel.. a bit scared of the.. vastness. the.. non-delineation. and thats .. ok. i even welcome it, i am not weak because I AM strong. (and mentors are brilliant for wobbles!)

i realised earlier today that the bearcat/just enjoy yourself/forever homeward thing was simply .. this:

"Hannah, I'm never peaceful. But peace is always with me. I've let go of the idea of personal peace or happiness.

3)You are describing exactly the heart of the ego's guilt. If you enjoy it, it's wrong. But then, of course, you are also wrong for not enjoying yourself."

ACIM Mentor said…
Will, I do think, I do engage with the chatter sometimes. I just don't believe in it.
will said…
Liz, I get that, what I wanted to know is what is going on when you are not engaged with it? During the day when you are not engaged with the chatter that is going on what state (?) are you in. Are you not thinking? When I step back from the mind and it is chattering it is something I consciously do. What is going on in your mind at this point?
will said…
Liz, When I look at the mind, step back from it, see it as separate, I can't do that for very long until I fall back into the mind as Will. I'm trying to find out what you do to stay in that state.
ACIM Mentor said…
Will, I don't step back from the mind. I do step back from the self and the personal thought system and their chatter. Then I'm just observing them from Being. In a way I'm always there. I do not have to do anything to make it that way. It's just where I've arrived. Sometimes I do it more formally when there's something to process or when it is just simply time to rest more in the Awareness of Truth.
will said…
Yes that is what I am doing, stepping back from the self and the personal thought system. The Being is what I was after. Is the Being you are talking about a relaxed state where the personal thought system just fades away? That is what happens for me, but it is somewhat like meditation. Is this what you are talking about?
will said…
Liz, I am not inferring I am in the same place as you because I'm not. I'm asking for some guidance or information. If you are uncomfortable talking about it or are not sure what I want don't worry about it. It was something you wrote this week that brought it mind.
will said…
I'm not spiritually in a place where I can do this, I guess I just want to know so I can look down the road.
ACIM Mentor said…
Will, I have a hard time answering now because...I don't care so I don't pay attention! I just know this mind observes, it processes when it needs to, it rests in Truth when it is time to. I don't do anything; it's just what happens now.

It doesn't seem to me the personal thought system ever fades away. Chatter, chatter, chatter. It used to be how you described. It fell into the background as peace came into the foreground. Either way it's all the same to me now.

I'm not sure if I've answered your question.

I have an article coming out in a few weeks about this stage I'm in. I just always answer any "ask" questions in my newsletter/blog before I put out any other stuff I've written. So it may be more than a couple of weeks if I receive any more "ask" questions in the meantime.
will said…
OK. That sounds like what we are all doing so that helps.
will said…
Liz in the future you can just say "I have an article coming out" that's good enough for me.
ACIM Mentor said…
Alas, Will, you are not the only one who reads this.
hannah said…
liz - in regards to "But beyond that there is still the need to acclimate to Truth, and, if you remember our discussion, learning it is not a loss to give up what we hold onto just because it is ours."

im still confused about if holding onto something just because its mine has to be an anchor holding me from truth? if my peace is not disturbed in a way that i am conscious of, if i feel enriched or enjoyment from an aspect of the selfs thoughts or from an activity, then can i be ready to let it go, it would become sacrifice not a natural falling away? i mean.. i already understand intellectually that all forms of attachment to any aspect of this self experience is an 'anchor' to hold truth away.. but im just starting to ease into an awareness?appreciation? that there is no justification for guilt in this choice.. 'this' is nothing, pain, pleasure, conflict, ease.. its all the same, all nothing.

honestly, i can see that this discussion on one level is all pointless.. i am where i am on my own unfolding path, no matter how i try or what mask i put on to myself, i have this space (real or not) that is this selfs 'authentic-now-space', and experience has shown me that i learn/undo more quickly coming from that space than from tearing for the next space.

so..i was going to just relax and let it be, regarding "learning it is not a loss to give up what we hold onto just because it is ours" because it felt so relieving when you told me that you had recognised that dynamic in yourself at one stage (that you were only holding onto things for the reason it was yours). my guilt around this choice to hold on started to drop, as im also starting to accept that this holding on doesnt negatively affect anyone else. (oh though.. doubt.. does it??) i want to stay in that relief! i dont want to face the feelings that come, the loss of self, the void of being me that it feels like will overwhelm me if i keep looking at this. i want to slow down to a snails pace, spend time in 'hold on with no guilt'.

hannah said…
but im finding just relaxing around it really hard.. this morning i received an advertising email from a tee shirt company, with the word 'oikeiosis' written on one of the shirts, and my gut said look that word up. ill just put the first part of the wikipedia article here:

'In Stoic ethics, oikeiôsis is a technical term variously translated as "appropriation," "orientation," "familiarization," "affinity," "affiliation,"[1] and "endearment."[2] Oikeiôsis signifies the perception of something as one’s own, as belonging to oneself. The theory of oikeiôsis can be traced back to the work of the first Stoic philosopher, Zeno of Citium.[3] The Stoic philosopher Hierocles saw it as the basis for all animal impulses as well as human ethical action. According to Porphyry, "those who followed Zeno stated that oikeiôsis is the beginning of justice".

i followed 'appropriation' to an article 'SELF-APPROPRIATION IN LONERGAN AND VOEGELIN' and while it i can only understand 3/4, if that, of what its saying, basically i came up against this conflict between this magnetic pull in me toward self transcendence, and my desire to play where i am now, to hold on to my own inner enjoyments, the fantasies that are just for me: even though i kind of see them as maybe just an expression of my fear of truth. (this is more an intellectual 'kind-of-seeing', than a deep feeling) and im torn, liz. i want to enjoy being guilt free, slow down, just.. let me be me. stop swimming so hard, just splash around. and i want to hop on the ride and take the brakes off. i feel.. equally pulled in both directions.

golly, thats a lot of words.. but my question is.. do these two desires HAVE to be opposing, ??? can i.. play? if i choose and trust that playing WILL BE taking the brakes off, will it play out that way, like things have done in my past.. or am i just fooling myself about that?? will i be slowing down my learning it is not a loss? COULD i learn that quicker if letting go of my minds fantasies still feels like a sacrifice? part of me is just.. smiling, relaxing, going hey, you already trust it will play out perfectly no matter what.. that it doesnt matter either way.. but.. i feel guilty around the conflict, so im asking you about it!

i will leave a quote from the second article i mentioned:

'Thus ... self-appropriation, which recognizes inquiry as the in-between state of human existence, is in accord with the norms of human nature, is concerned with human nature, and is an enrichment of human nature — that is to say, self-appropriation is in accord with authentic selfhood, is concerned about the being of the self, and is an enrichment of the self. But self-appropriation does not transcend human nature since human nature, at its very core, is self-transcending.'
hannah said…
liz.. is acclimating to truth the same thing as accepting the truth??
ACIM Mentor said…
Hannah, I'd say that acclimation is part of the process of accepting. First there's removing blocks. Then there's "getting used to" Truth. It just seems too huge and too good to accept all at once! So there's a gentle acclimation process.
hannah said…
ok, thank you.

regarding what you said earlier in this thread - "But beyond that there is still the need to acclimate to Truth, and, if you remember our discussion, learning it is not a loss to give up what we hold onto just because it is ours."

in my waffly questions above, basically what i was wondering is, can we only learn that it is not a loss to give up what we hold onto just because it ours, by going through that process you described in the relinquishment stage of developing trust? of recognising a dead end feeling around something and turning away from it.. rejecting it it would feel like!?

bottom line, im asking if im going to have to go through some feelings of sacrifice, of mentally letting go of what i personally enjoy despite knowing its absolutely nothing, just mine, not leading anywhere, to learn that letting go of things i know are only precious to me because they are mine is not a sacrifice!? or could i just enjoy that mental space, my fantasies, if i knew that space for what it was, purely nothing, and harmless as such?
if i did the latter, and yet continued daily communing with truth, would the things i hold onto in my mind which are fruitless but enjoyable to this self, just fall away in their own time, with no sense of sacrifice?

if this is too vague a question i will discuss the specifics with you personally in our next appointment. i dont feel guilty any more about these mental spaces, for which im very grateful to you, (or if i do feel guilt, its so comparatively mild its not feeling like guilt, laugh.. maybe embarrassment) but i do see, i think, how everything that is held onto would eventually fall away as truth held more value.

i had the expereince when out walking with my niece, if you recall, of the thought running through my head 'oh, why on earth would i BOTHER holding onto anything that wasnt reality!?', and it flipped me into a perception/feeling space of.. oh.. crisp presence!? (the world almost looked as golden without actually changing visually as during the higher miracle experience) and that crisp presence felt entirely non demanding, non-needful, full right then.. it was very lovely indeed. id like to help myself into maintaining that space, or at least not actively blocking it, but im not sure if not feeling guilty about where i currently am, what i currently feel, will do that more effectively, or actively reminding myself that what im enjoying internally is a barrier to peace, and turning away from it to the best of my current ability, while it still feels like letting go of something beautiful ive found in my mind!? (because, comparatively to what has been held in my mind in the past, it IS beautiful!)

golly, writing out and trying to clarify this question, and im suddenly now very confused about what holding on even means! that might sound odd, but.. what does holding on look like really!?? is it actively unhelpful only when it has hope attached? i mean.. fantasies are nothing!
ACIM Mentor said…
Yes, Hannah, things fall away naturally when they no longer have value for you. You might have at first a tiny twinge of regret before you let go and realize you have lost nothing.

Some things are just habits of mind that linger for a while. Like fantasizing. It's where you are used to looking for, if not exactly finding, satisfaction or whatever. You reflexively return to these old habits. But in time they will fall away, too, because they simply don't work and something else does.
hannah said…
ah, thank you. i have been wanting to accept more deeply that this inner journey to knowing peace is a process, but wasnt sure how much guilt and sacrifice were clouding the rough outline i have given the process, if it would help more to be gentle, or be more regimented with my thought.

so, just to be sure im understanding the practical side of this.. if i feel greatly threatened by the thought of letting something in my mind go, even if i know it to be pointless, i must still value it more than peace, and it would generally be more helpful to approach that by continuing to watch it with a focus of non-judgement, rather than by trying to let it go when the letting go still feels like a big sacrifice? and in time as truth becomes mor real to me, the letting go will reduce from feeling like a loss to a tiny twinge of regret?

ACIM Mentor said…
Hannah, yes.
hannah said…
brillo.

thanks liz, one of these days i will accent that and move on to some new questions ;) i appreciative your patience.

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